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M:
How did that original creation take place of the
body as infant? And even prior to its birth: How
did the conception happen? How did the infant
come into being, without it asking for it? Understand
that. Understand thoroughly that drop of stuff
which eventually has developed into a body, and
then you will understand the whole mystery that
you are not that. This body that is now occupying
a certain space, how much space did it occupy
upon its conception? And what was it then? If
you understand that, you will understand the mystery
of the Self.
You
base yourself on the body that you are now, and
don't understand its root. That is why we think
we are this body. And for that, you must do meditation.
What is meditation? Meditation is not this body-mind
meditating as an individual, but it is this knowledge
"I am," this consciousness, meditating on itself.
Then the consciousness will unfold its own beginning.
Identification
is with what? With this body that is now. But
does it understand its origin? If you understand
the temporal aspect, then you won't take so much
pride in the body that is now existing.
[Maharaj
is now talking about himself] The body is
thoroughly old, my mission is fulfilled. Now you
people come, which is all right, but my mission
is done. My soul is about to leave this body.
I am happy. I clap! [clapping his hands]
I am in a clapping mood that I am about to pass
on. I am no longer in love with, or held by, anybody,
anything, any attachment.
Forgetfulness
— that noble, most elevated forgetfulness
—will not arrive until all doubts have been
dispelled. Unless the doubts are eradicated, that
peace will not prevail.
So
long as I remain identified with the body, I want
to be occupied with actions, because I am not
able to sustain that pure "I" without them. I
cannot endure it, because I identify with the
body-mind, with all kinds of activities. I call
it jiva-atman, which means "conditioned
by the body-mind," and is the self that is occupied
with all the activities. And the "I" which is
unconditioned by, and not identified with, the
body-mind — that therefore has no form, design,
or name — is Paramatman. The jiva-atman
is being witnessed by Paramatman, which
is your real Self only.
V:
What is it doing? Is it partaking in the working
of the world?
M:
Paramatman need not participate in the
activities of the world, but without that principle
no activities could take place at all. Just as
is the case with akash (space): without
it, no activities are possible.
Activities
are going on naturally, spontaneously, in the
same way that there is no author or doer of your
dream world. Nevertheless, you fully put to use
your dream world. You will not be able to comprehend
this so long as you try to understand things as
an individual. But once you are the universal
manifest consciousness and abide in that Paramatman
spirit — "I am" without form and distinction
— then you will realize how things are.
V:
It can be doubted whether Krishna was the incarnation
of God into a human being. If it is indeed so,
however, then we must attach importance to what
he told us.
M:
Whatever Krishna stated is perfectly correct.
For that moment, that particular time in history,
it was most appropriate. But that moment, that
time, has gone. He also has gone. The spiritual
elevation happened in him; that is why he is great.
You
are seeing and understanding things through the
concepts which you have absorbed. But, as a matter
of fact, the actual state of affairs is quite
different. You are holding on to it as the truth,
but whatever you have heard will not remain as
authority or as permanent; it will disappear.
Then after the disappearance of everything, whatever
remains, that you are: neti-neti.
You
have been continuously changing; you are in a
state of flux. No identity of yours has remained
as a permanent feature. And in due course you
will also become very old. So is there any constancy
in all this?
V:
The truth is that the body is perishable, but
Atma is imperishable, eternal.
Second
visitor: Do you know that or have you read
it?
V:
I am experiencing and also have read it. I am
getting old and have seen people perish.
M:
Yet there must be some author authorizing all
these activities. You take the grosser four elements,
which are engaged in activity. These four elements
are presided over by space. In what activity is
that engaged? If you are going to investigate
the world of your observation, you will never
reach your destination. Unless you give up whatever
you have heard and abide in yourSelf, you will
not understand all this. You may take it upon
yourself to investigate this entire manifest world
and whatever you have heard, but you will be caught
more and more in a quagmire.
When
incarnation takes place, what is its cause? And
in what form does it occur? The stories you have
heard…
V:
Why doesn't everybody become Krishna?
M:
What is that childhood? What is that child-principle?
Investigate that. The touch of that quality, the
child quality: understand and realize it. When
did you encounter yourself? Since when and how?
After collecting all the messages and concepts
in the world, you cannot investigate yourself.
When Krishna was born, he had that touch of "I-am-ness."
The same goes for yourself. Understand that! What
is that touch of "I-am-ness," that touch of child
in you? Since when did you know that you are?
And with what did you know that you are? If you
try to employ whatever you have heard, you will
never be able to understand this. You know that
you were not, but now you know that you are. How
did this happen, this confluence? You were not
and suddenly you are. This is what we want to
discover.
V:
I think I will give up on all this.
M:
You just find out and enquire about your own self.
Since when did you come to know your self? And
how? Did anybody tell you that you are? Or did
you come to know yourself spontaneously?
V:
I was told and also it kept occurring to me when
I read Ramana Maharshi's questions, "Who is it
that dreams, who is it that sleeps?"
M:
Give up your body identity. Since when did you
start knowing yourself? Concentrate on that only.
V:
Who is the one who slept?
M:
Give up that question, because it is not relevant.
There is no value in your question. At the moment
I do not want you to ask any questions. I am driving
you to the source and would be satisfied with
your knowing what you are. I want to find out
from you with what it is you know you are. Confine
yourself to this area. Focus only on your knowing
that "you are." How do you know you are? Just
be there. You have been shadow-boxing with the
many concepts you have collected from the world
— you are fighting with all that. What is
the use of it?
You
know you are. How do you know it? And with what
did you know it? This is the sum total of my teaching
needed to put you on the right track, its very
quintessence.
When
all your questions are answered, my talks are
very easy to understand. And when you understand,
all your questions have gone. It is a vicious
circle: So long as you have questions, you cannot
follow what is being said.
V:
What happens is that certain questions keep cropping
up.
M:
I am going for the basic questions only: What
are you? Since when are you? How did you happen
to be? And due to what are you? I don't want to
deal with a lot of sundry questions; they are
of no value to me. If you like my teachings, you
may sit here; otherwise, by all means quit this
place.
In
any true spiritual search, whatever you have heard,
whatever you have done, is of no use at all to
arrive at the real truth. The knowledge "you are"
has happened. Due to what?
First
of all, you witness that you are. Stay put there
only, with this "you are." Just be there. Then
with the help of this "you are," you are witnessing
the world. If you are not witnessing "you are,"
you will not be witnessing the world either.
When
you do not know you are, people also will not
know that you are and they will cremate you. So
long as you know you are, people will respect
you, as you are something. When you do not know
you are, people will dispose of you. Stay put
there. You must be present there only, at this
point — the "you are" point, bereft of all
concepts, all hearsay. When you recognize and
realize the knowledge that you are, you will also
know what Krishna is. Any number of incarnations
have come and gone. But when you understand yourself,
you will realize all the incarnations.
Because
you know you are, you know the world is. You also
know that God is. If you don't know you are, where
is the world and where is the God?
There
have been so many incarnations, and now you know
you are. That "you are" is the divine principle
because of which all the incarnations were. Many
people have come here, but rarely has anybody
after listening to me, come closer to himself,
rarely anyone will understand what I am driving
at. But that rare person, in the process of understanding
me, will come closer to himself, the one who listens.
Those who really understand will abide in themselves.
You
did not know your parents before your birth, nor
did the parents know you. In spite of this, how
did the knowledge "you are" sprout in that particular
situation? What is this amazing thing? I am again
putting the same question. The parents did not
know the child, and the child also did not know
his parents before his birth. Now the child says,
Here I am. How is that?
This
itself is the greatest miracle, that I got the
news "I am." Have you any doubts that you are?
Copyright
1994 Robert Powell. All rights reserved.
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